Is This Legal?? *Submitted*
8-16-12 * Submitted by a reader*
Can they do this? What about their 501c3 status? Won’t they lose it?
Comments
45 Responses to “Is This Legal?? *Submitted*”-
-
-
-
-
-
CLICK ON THIS AD
CLICK HERE FOR MORE
-
CLICK HERE FOR INFORMATION
-
-
CLICK ON THIS AD FOR MORE INFO
Click here for more information
-
-
-
My main concern on this issue was that we got the opportunity to vote on it, we did. I really don’t care which way it goes(I am voting yes). Several posts on this thread mentions that they prayed at the meeting for God to keep Madison dry(very selfish & hypocrytical imho). I can’t say 100% definate if Madison is better off wet, or dry & neither can anybody else. So on that note I will pray for God to help me make the RIGHT decision that is best for our county, not the one I think is best for me to support my hypocracy.
ps. I don’t see a thing wrong with anonymous postings…I bet John knows all info so just because We don’t know who is posting, they have made their presence known to One Who Matters, just my humble opinion.
Christmas is just around the corner and we all know one must have rum for rum balls and fruitcakes, prices are skyrocketing daily so it would be great NOT to have to leave town in order for one’s kitchen needs…’NUFF SAID.
Only a fool, heretic, or stupid politician would challenge the facts of this post and its comments. The readily identified moral, religious, and ethical issues have all been referred too. the peasant believes the believers are winning and this proposal will fail. But the proponents will quickly reform and develop another proposal that makes them richer and we peasants more morally degraded.
Gonna attend my local church this weekend to experience first hand the power of religion in our society and our community specifically. Religion and our local churches are the very key to our future. They are the only ones who approach the issues we face from a moral point of view. Listen to the words of Christ.
The beatitudes are found at Matthew 5: 3-12
Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they shall possess the earth.
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for justice,
for they shall be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called sons of God.
Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice sake,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Please remain objective!
No church can be prohibited from exercising free speech rights or the free exercise of religion.
In fact, the tax-exempt status of a church has been revoked by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) only once for engaging in overtly political activity (and that revocation was merely temporary).
Churches and non-profits are free to be involved in political issues as long as no candidate or party is endorsed.
Please stay on topic.
Mr. Madison Outsider, who chose not to use his real name, my comment was not about legal matters concerning tax exempt status of Chick-FL-A and churches, it was about principle.
@ Glaser.
You said: I think it is telling that the person who reported this did not give their name.
It is very telling. And the story it tells is one of religious oppression where anyone who takes a stand for individual liberty, against the Christian-quo, is a target for retribution. Anonymity allows the reader to focus on the TOPIC rather than allowing the discussion to devolve into ad hominem attacks and red herrings which is a tactic many christian propagandist use with great skill. Many of the founding fathers chose to publish pamphlets anonymously to avoid this very thing.
I was at those anti hard liquor meetings, and the County Sheriff gave his opinion that use of church signs was not illegal.
Perhaps. But since churches enjoy tax free status, they, as an entity, should not use that status to promote any political or legislative measure. It is simply unethical.
At last night’s meeting everyone prayed to God, asking for His help to stop hard liquor sales from coming to Madison County. I think it is a good thing when people turn to God with their needs.
If your god truly responds to prayer, then voting would be unnecessary. Instead, what you were doing was conditioning attendees to think that god is against business owners and customers from deciding how to spend their hard-earned money. You are conditioning congregants to by-pass critical thinking and evidence based arguments in favor of neo-fundamentalist rhetoric that is largely discounted by the majority of christendom. It is brainwashing under the guise of ‘prayer’.
The two top concerns of those trying to keep Madison County dry is first, the children, and second (and this is voiced by new people and those born here) is that people from outside the county are the real ones pushing for legal hard liquor sales in a county that has been dry for over 150 years.
The children? Let’s talk about the children. What you are teaching them is ‘might makes right’. You are teaching them that Christians have the duty to impose their doctrinal positions on the rest of society by government force. That violence is necessary and good. You are teaching them that access to alcohol causes people to drink it. You are teaching the children logical fallacies that will not serve them well in the real world where critical thinking is the real solution to most of their future problems.
As far as out of town people pushing an agenda, that is a red herring meant to distract from the issue at hand – the freedom of buyers and sellers to enter a mutually beneficial and consensual agreement.
The 150 years argument was a similar tactic used by the Southern Baptist Church to endorse slavery. Just because we’ve always done it, does not make it valid.
It is thought if enough people who live in Madison County do vote, they will look into their hearts and know that voting against this law is the right thing to do.
And we are calling for citizens to use their minds to recognize that the availability of liquor is an issue of FREEDOM and has absolutely nothing to do with religion.
The presence of Liquor in Madison County will not out shine the Love of God !
Mark your ballot as You wish but for me and my house we will serve the Lord !
Madison Outsider: So just because an organization doesn’t pay taxes they lose the right to express their views?!
Jj: Slow down and re read what you are posting, oh and they have this neat thing called a spell checker…you should try it out.
I signed the Madison Yes petition but will be voting NO. I signed the petition so everyone in this county could vote their conscience/beliefs so that maybe this issue will finally be put to rest for a while. There will be a minimal economic impact by becoming wet. There are insufficient quality workers in this county to support any type of business, and with our public school system so pathetic (NOT the fault of the teachers, either!) there seems to be little chance of improvement. There will only be a few liqour liscenses issued for this county. Quite frankly the “hard” liquor already flows through this county and anyone who doesn’t believe that has their head in the sand.
I wonder why it is that so many atheists are fixated on religion and so many Christians are fixated on politics.
If anyone wishes to pursue an official complaint, they may contact the Freedom from Religion Foundation at the following website: http://ffrf.org/faq/state-church/churches-and-political-lobbying-activities1/
This clearly violates the establishment clause separating church and state. Christians are all too willing to use violence and force to further their agenda (nothing less than world domination). Christians claim to love their neighbor but are only obligated to do so IF that neighbor subscribes to the same set of religious doctrines. If they do not, they are not good enough for god, and therefore do not count. They are sub-human.
As a non-christian I would never think it ethical to call for government to outlaw christianity or prevent them from holding worship services. Yet every day christians consider it their duty to impose their outdated tribal ethos on everyone around them. As such, they are worse than bad neighbors, they are a threat to freedom and liberty itself.
To Madison Outsider.
Nope, never worked on this issue, and I didn’t live here when this came up before. My wife and I found Madison and thought it would be a wonderful place to live, and we were right!
I must say though, I never heard anyone say, “I think some alcohol will solve my problems.” Usually alcohol causes problems, and I believe it will if Madison goes wet. I have done a lot of research on Wet versus Dry counties and one thing that everyone does agree on is that dry counties that go wet see an large increase in domestic violence.
That is the main reason I am voting against Madison going wet. I would feel just horrible if more women and children were abused because of my vote.
Sincerely
James Glaser
I was undecided on the wet dry issue until I saw how a church was bullied just because of their sign. I have a zero tolerance for bullies. I will be voting no on August 28. This is America and i think some people have forgot what it means to be free.
I should have added to my comment the IRS form 13909 is a complaint form used for tax exempt entities not just 501-c-3′s. The only way to find out whether or not something is legal is to file the form, let the IRS check it out and then you will know. You can remain anonymous.
Ok then!!!!
Just funny how individual churches take a stand on the issue. I see not all of them show their hipocracy. Good for them. To jeff , jimmy, frances, jim tonny, and to the rest of the hipocrits.
OK, the article at hand is being avoided. You have the right to vote how you want! However, the article asks Is this legal? Answer- yes it is legal. Second question- Won’t they lose their 5013c status? Answer- Well no, a church does not need a 5013c status- it is automatically tax exempt and cannot lose its’ tax exempt status. Mail your 5013c letter to the IRS and tell them you don’t need it as a church, it will save them some time. Vote your conscience Aug 28! Again I am voting No-it’s my right!
Hmmm…
I didn’t realize that the Greenville Baptist Church could register to vote, much less cast a ballot. I learn something new every day!
Mr. Hadden Chik-Fil-a pays taxes and is not a tax exempt corporation as are the churches. Therein lies the BIG difference.
Greenville Baptist Church would like to go on record that they, as a church body, are taking a stand against the Wet/Dry Local Option Election and will vote “NO” on August 28, 2012.
Toney Hill, Pastor
Frances Ginn, Clerk
I am frankly annoyed at the “vote no” AND the “vote yes” propaganda. How about we encourage educating our voters on both sides of the issue and letting them decide on their own, rather than shoving a vote yes or no sign in their faces.
I want to see some signs that say “Think for yourself on August 28th!”
So it is OK for the founder of Chic-Fl- La to voice his Christian opinions but local churches and Christians should not express theirs? PLEASE!
This is just another attempt to exert control. Some people are having a hard time believing that things have changed and are changing. As a result of all of this change, they have lost all of that power that their base used to possess.
It’s a very confusing time for these folks. Have pity on them. Remain meek and inherit the world.
Mr. Glaser,
Are you the same James Glaser that worked diligently to make Madison a WET county the last time this issue was addressed?
To file a complaint against a 501-c-3 complete this form and send it to the IRS. It is IRS form #13909 and attach the pictures.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf
Everyone has a right to a “voice” except the ones that are against it………………
Where is the fairness in that? Hat’s off to you Jeff and Jimmy!!
I am vitally concerned about a lunch meeting for the ‘county’ scheduled for today at Honey Lake Plantation. I have called the MC office and no one seems to know what group this is. My question is how can a county agency have a lunch meeting at unargueably the most expensive venue in this county, given todays economy?
Did an actual grown adult come up with the idea for these signs? Why do some churches take a stand about this? It’s not a religious issue. I’ll tell you why: because it scares the weak.This is 2012 people. Let’s catch up to the rest of the country. Two liquor stores will not condemn Madison to hell nor will it cause rapes and pillaging. The signs here should say something more like “Don’t screw up 150 years of denial for our already wet county!”
I think it is telling that the person who reported this did not give their name.
I was at those anti hard liquor meetings, and the County Sheriff gave his opinion that use of church signs was not illegal.
I looked up the rules about church political activity and found this:
Ballot Initiatives or Referendum
Churches have been actively involved in many recent controversial ballot initiatives and referenda in numerous states across the country. Under the law, this is permissible activity because ballot initiatives are considered to be “legislation” and, thus, are lobbying activities, not “political” activity. For example, a priest is allowed to tell his congregation to support a referendum denying equal marriage rights to gay partners, and to include church support or opposition to referenda in church bulletins. Again, however, if there is substantial time or money spent on this by the church, that could be problematic.
Seeing as the churches have only been working on this anti-Hard Liquor referendum for three weeks, I don’t think they will have a problem. At last night’s meeting everyone prayed to God, asking for His help to stop hard liquor sales from coming to Madison County. I think it is a good thing when people turn to God with their needs.
The two top concerns of those trying to keep Madison County dry is first, the children, and second (and this is voiced by new people and those born here) is that people from outside the county are the real ones pushing for legal hard liquor sales in a county that has been dry for over 150 years.
It is thought if enough people who live in Madison County do vote, they will look into their hearts and know that voting against this law is the right thing to do.
James Glaser.
Dusty Miller Ave
Madison, Florida
Separation of Church and state. That’s why they pay NO TAXES. I say revoke their 501c3 !!!
Private land is fair game but churches are open to the public. Think about it
After reading more donations are excepted but not for oposition. I think chirches can put signs up but not for politics in supporting one aspect recently the ten command ments then it clssified as special interest. I support madison economic growth
Furthermore if your going to be bold enough to ride around an take pictures be bold and post your name to it. As far as I am concerned we need to move along there is nothing to see here, just someone trying to be famous. To whoever thinks this is Jacob’s church it is not. Along with Jeff Bailey I am voting no to.
Fight on it is just a technicality
Jeff. I understand that argument but churches still cant use public land fund by taxeys for the signs they been putting up on right of ways private is legal i have seen those i have no probblem with that
Whether or not a church or church ministry applies for and receives a “501c3 tax-exempt recognition letter” from the IRS, any contributions made to a church are “automatically qualified” as a tax write-off to the contributor, pursuant to IRS Publication 526, and IRS Code § 170(c)(2)(B). A church does not have to be a “nonprofit charitable organization” to be tax deductible, nor does it need IRS authorization to be tax deductible. According to the IRS, churches have that status “automatically.” My name is Jeff Bailey and I am voting NO!
This is cut and dry I have seen signs around madison on public land and churchs a complete violation. County city should do something. Or start taking it down……
Very well possible. It’s a thin line to walk and as a Church (organization), I wouldn’t do this.
http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=163395,00.html
There’s nothing stating against individuals of a church participating in political campaigns (of course). As a Church leader, I would redirect my strategies towards individual participation instead of the Church as a whole. It’s too risky.
Isn’t this Jacob’s church? I think it is so this should be no surprise.
They have dug their own grave using Satan’s shovel.
Don’t you know that law doesn’t apply to Madison County? Jesus makes the laws here when it comes to “phony Christians”. The real Christians try to abide by the law. I hope someone turs them into the IRS and they do lose it!!!! What rocket scientist came up with this clever political idea anyway? I don’t even know where that church is?
To my understanding issues are different from candidates.