ALCOHOL! Comment away!!! Yes or No
8-20-12 ** POST YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT THE WET/DRY ISSUE HERE**
With the blessing of my advertiser, MadisonYes!, the commenting on the Wet/Dry issue is open. Encourage people to vote yes or no. If you’re going to post “statistics”, please try to back it up with sources. Otherwise it will just seem like propaganda.
Follow the rules please:
Not personal attacks and no vulgarity.
John Ovenden
Madison Voice
Jason, thank you for your input on this.
Now, this is going to sound maybe a little negative.
I am a native Madison Countian. Born at the hospital in Tallahassee and raised on a multi-generation farm in Madison County, there’s nobody more native than me. My blood still runs heavy with Madison County iron-rich well water and my body still carries scars earned on Boot Hill wearing my beloved maroon Cowboy uniform… but I no longer live in Madison County. I knew I was leaving as soon as I left Madison County the first time and saw that there was a world outside its borders. Since then, I have lived all over the Southeast and in the Midwest, spent a little time way up north and even out in Cali-forn-I-A. The folks that aren’t from Madison but live there now aren’t the only ones that have seen the big ol’ world out here. I loosely monitor Madison County news and developments, both through this website and by word of mouth from my family and friends that choose to remain there, and way more often than not, the reports I see and hear leave me shaking my head in bemused disbelief.
Madison County has always been guilty of being a good ol’ boys’ network; the ten or so families that actually have money in Madison County have always had it. I didn’t grow up rich – or what passes for rich in Madison County; perhaps I should just say “privileged” – but I did grow up with a basic respect for, first, myself, then for my family, my friends, my community.
My self-respect is one of the main reasons I headed for the hills as soon as I could, and if you look at my fellow MACOHI graduates, most of the best and the brightest of them did, too. Why? Sure, there are the tangible reasons; most of them left to go to college or into the military or both, and job opportunities, as the ever-present saw goes, are nil in Madison County for anyone who wants to be more skilled or rewarded than a prison guard (and no disrespect meant; I dated a death row guard from Lieber prison up here in South Carolina for a while). Me, I left because of wispier stuff. I left because I knew in my soul that being surrounded day in and day out by self-serving hypocritical fundamentalist xenophobes would kill me. Racist, homophobic, left-wing short-sighted nutbars aren’t my cup of tea, and the words “nigger,” “fag,” “wetback,” and the like get thrown around down there a long sight more than do “yes ma’am,” “no ma’am,” “please,” “thank you,” or even “God bless you.” My mama raised me to believe that the only thing it’s okay to hate is hate itself.
My respect for my family is the reason why I feel compelled to write this today. I have watched my father, Albert Thigpen, make comments I probably wouldn’t have on Facebook… but he made the wrong kinds of comments for the right kinds of reasons. He called out an “outsider” (who, apparently, is the publisher of this website) for bringing values and goals into Madison County that he didn’t agree with; he spoke in defense of the few things Madison County has left that are good. Though Madison County is indeed dying economically – and the reasons for that are many – the one thing it has tried hard to retain is its sense of neighborly security. Madison County is no tourist hub; dangerous external elements avoid Madison County like the plague because the Madison County Sheriff’s Department and the Florida Highway Patrol keep the main traffic arteries of Highway 90 and Interstate 10 on a tyrannical lockdown, and I applaud them for it. When last I visited my family’s farm on Honey Lake Road – an ancient, winding, rural, canopy road that’s barely safe to drive on at posted speeds – I was run off the road by a speeding vehicle that I later saw pulling into the Honey Lake Plantation, and I have heard numerous similar reports. The dangerous external elements weren’t just in Madison County, they were barreling down the road at extremely safe speeds on the residential back road I grew up on, and now, they want to serve liquor at the place where that jerk was going to and from. My dad has a legitimate concern for the safety of his home, and when I see people blasting him and his sentiments on the Voice and on Facebook, it makes me angry. He’s a good man doing what little he can to protect what’s his from those who would use deception, bullying and money to sway those who know only a small part of the story into voting to further endanger it.
My respect for my friends and the community in which I grew up prompts me to say the following, not for my own sake, but for the sakes of all those reading this: Something’s indeed gotta give in Madison County, but not just any change is necessarily the right change. Legalizing the sale of alcohol is, in my opinion, a non-issue; at present, people just take their dollars across the county or state line and buy whatever booze they want and bring it back into Madison County anyway, so this isn’t the important issue or even particularly pursuant to it. The problem is that Madison County produces exactly three kinds of youth, and until a fourth category begins to be inspired to better things in our schools, Madison County’s vital signs will continue to decline.
The first sort, those like myself, we left. Smart, young, capable, and driven young people who “ran away” to find whatever the world had to offer, we took the best of Madison County with us in our spirit, our loyalty, our sense of tradition, our dedication and tenacity; we left behind the bigotry, the incest, the nepotism, the collusion, the “good ol’ boy” mentality. We judged ourselves and our new communities and community members by value and by accomplishments, not by gender, race, religion, surname or sexual preference.
The second and third sorts stayed. Some work hard and eke out a living as best they can under the circumstances provided; they try and they try and some manage to make names and places for themselves in the community, doing as well for their families as the piss-poor SOGANOFLA job markets allow. I assume that the majority of people reading this little essay fall into that category, and more power to you, folks. You made a hard row for yourselves, and kudos for sticking with it. I couldn’t.
The third section, though? They’re a sickening, saddening, terrifyingly large part of Madison County’s population because they just don’t care. White, black, or red, they are the lazy, illiterate, entitled dregs of society that live from jail sentence to jail sentence on SSI and gub’ment checks; they sit on milk crates and guzzle malt liquor around the Tree of Knowledge at the gas station across from the park in downtown Greenville; they congregate and sling and/or do whatever form of dope they can get their hands on up in the project up from the old Madison Middle School; they and their innumerable offspring terrorize the Central School (and, for that matter, every other public establishment in the county) like their inner-city Atlanta idols; they blow up their trailers in failed and stupid meth production labs; they spew bile and hatred at anyone who will listen simply because it’s what either Death Row Records or the Ku Klux Klan told them to do. When some delusional philanthropist comes into town hoping to save the world – or, at least, the inbred bastard children of these particular tragedies – the whole community comes together to oppose the effort; the people they’re trying to save bum-rush and overtax the assistance programs by whatever fraudulent means are available, and the few in the county who do have resources do everything they can to bar the philanthropists’ access. These are the only people that will be left in Madison County when the old guard, like my dad, are gone.
The fourth sort of youth, the sort that (as far as I’ve been able to tell, anyway) doesn’t yet exist in Madison County? They’re going to stay, but not to fit in, not to be another cog in the wobbly wheel. They’re going to shatter the mold of apathy and indifference and fear and hatred and entitlement that’s so horribly rampant in the hearts and minds and, let’s face it, lazy asses of those setting policy and defining the culture of Madison County today. They’re going to learn all that Madison’s schools have to offer them, then they’re going to go to college or the military and learn even more… then they’re going to return home with that knowledge. They’re not going to let the hate and ignorance of the current establishment run them and their enlightened progress off (like I did); they’re going to insist that Madison County can be better, and they’re going to fight, tooth and nail and brawn and brain, against the dying of the light. They’re going to come back to Madison and force the schools to perform better by helping the schools become better. They’re going to build businesses and industries and employ their neighbors. They’re going to reform an infrastructure and drive actual progress, not just change, and they’re going to change Madison and the Panhandle from the smelly armpit of Florida into a thriving place that their children will be proud to call home.
Or, Madison County will die.
In closing? Get back to the community and quit calling names. Focus on what’s important, not on what drives politics. Give your future a reason to be the future of Madison County, not to run from it at the first opportunity, never to return. Start by loving and bettering yourself, then by loving and bettering your family, then by loving and bettering your neighbor. See how that works out, rather than looking for more reasons to be more pissed off with more people for no real practical reason.
Good luck! We’ll be watching!
This “wet-dry” election in Madison County is about convenience and nothing but convenience. The advocates for a “wet” county only want to be able to go to a local restaurant in Madison, Greenville, Lee or whereever in the county, and order an alcoholic drink with their dinner. They know – as most others know – bringing legalized alcohol sales to Madison County will NOT bring in jobs. I would have more respect for the advocates of a “yes” vote if they would only be honest about this election.
The strict state regulations and the very few licenses issued for Madison County should put the reverberating alarms into perspective. If the vote is to sell alcohol stronger than beer (beer contains harmless alcohol?), current alcohol purchasers will not have to go out of county to buy. If the vote is to sell here, the people who ignore wine, bourbon, gin, vodka, tequila, moonshine (?) etc. will continue to ignore all of the above. I sympathize with the citizens who deplore addictions, premarital pregnancies, and other routine human behavior disasters; but the only harm that appears to have lessened is tobacco use. Results came through factual,effective avertising. Educating about health damage from beer and other alcoholic beverages may give the protection concerned people seek. If we dedicate ourselves to the goal that every county child can read well and comprehend, most will protect themselves. Marianne Green
When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said “Let us pray.” We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.
-Desmond Tutu
In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
Carl Sandburg
madison yes …… to make it clear. I should vote madison no but to talk about religion this is a side real delicate. reson being it has nothing to with religion. we talk abount death and tragidy assoiated with alcohol i would know but we all have are stories right. i enjoy posting not to attack but for my well being, this makes me stronger and closer to the angels we have lost. things wont get better till we admit are sins not at just churches. i find my self closer to people by not hiding them like i was raised to do and then just show up to church and have them washed away. i never ask jesus what to do but how to take care of the angels sent to guide me. these are the ones we are here to take care of and will be judge on.i will have that discussion with the all mighty when i get there. hopefully later than sooner.
I have come into this comment section with the must unbias thoughts in Madison County history!
Let me start off with my introduction, first off, I have been a Madison resident for almost all my life.
Madison is the equivalent of a third world country. People in other counties and cites are progressing as the county of Madison is regressing. Watch at 9:45 as the residents of Madison fly to Dollar General and CVS to get their final items before the town is completely shut down for the night. I am a witness to the other commodities that have bypassed this county years ago (Wal-Mart, waste tech, etc.), what are the results , Garbage! Madison is home of the F schools, home of racial tension, home of hate and envy. Just think we got here being dry as the weather of July. Ever since Dixie Packers closed years ago this city is on a financial suicide watch. For everyone Dixie Packers closing changed the climate of this town forever. Madison probably lost 500 jobs because of this, but don’t quote me on that. Now back to the topic in hand, if you want progress vote “Yes for Happiness” and if you hate change run to the “No” bubble. I think the 28th is going to be the biggest day in Madison County history. If we can get back to the glory days of the 80’s, where we had a theater, drive in theater, a skating ring and more. Some of you were too young to remember, but I do and Madison was on track to be at least the size of Valdosta. That was until the killer 90’s destroyed all hopes for progression. This county needs a break and what better way to do it is throw the Yes bubble. I know voting “Yes” want bring back the glory days, but it sure will be a start.
“Vote Yes For Happiness”
As a long time resident of Madison I am reminded of numerous other challenges that have divided this county. There is of course the current Wet/Dry issue, the Nestle Water issue, the 10 commandments issue, anyone else remember Wastetech? It all boils down to this. Madison is, was and always will be Madison-Wet or Dry. This wil always be a poor rural county with a labor force that is pathetic at best and no real industry to speak of except maybe the prison and that may be gone soon as well. The school system is horrible and the parents don’t care. There is little chance of any industry coming here in the forseeable future…we have already missed too many opportunities-many of which have come and gone unnoticed by the public. Some complain that a few privilaged families “control” this town like their own little fiefdoms, really? I doubt that is true. A baptist preacher said it best from the pulpit this past Sunday, he asked that everyone vote their conscience, and invite as many people as they can to vote. It is imperative that as many people as can, go out and vote on this change. Whether you vote Wet or Dry is not the real issue her, it is that you VOTE and make your voice heard. Most everyone already knows how they will vote, regardless of how many signs they see. So how about this, rather than all the childish fussing and name calling and foolishness, let’s agree to make sure to all go and vote and let the chips fall where they may. Stop dividng Madison and maybe, just maybe our children will have a reason to stay here.
Good post American Citizen!
@!Lloyd, Fran, and Voice,
Clink!
Now, if we were in the propaganda business and keeping the peasants eye off the ball, we have established the perfect political geometry in this issue. For and against. DUALITY. Set up duality among the faithful and exercise them occasionally and when you need them on the really important issues, you got them.
We have often referred to studies and related material that identify duality as one of the the greatest weakness or vulnerabilities in our culture. The literature is replete with info on this subject. (Read some Joseph Campbell.) Divide us on an issue of little matter, and keep our eye off the real prize and issues.
All the while we desperately need to be working on community. Remember the 10 commandments issue? Occurred around the last election, did it not? Notice a pattern?
Where are those community gardens that are needed to provide the resilience and strength when it is needed in the near future? Surely Voltaire had something to say about this. Delusion has got me. How about a little native american wisdom?
“Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only then will you realize that money cannot be eaten.” Cree Nation Tribal Prophecy
Yup, I will drink to that!
Frankly, the peasant could care less how this issues is resolved.
Concerning the Madison vote on whether or not prohibition should still be in effect in our county, I am truly undecided and ignorant on my liquor facts so please bear with me as I explore both sides. As I drive around Madison and see the abundance of Yes or No signs, I ponder why neighbor is fighting neighbor and what all the fuss is about. The problem I have is that neither side has a compelling argument. There is the religious viewpoint, the economic impact, and the “because it was” stance. “Because it was” doesn’t work for me since I have never been a fan of government telling me that I cannot do something so I will skip that and focus on the other two arenas.
From the religious perspective, I just don’t understand the difference of allowing one type of alcohol and disallowing other types. It would be as if there are lesser and worse sins. We all know that can’t be true, right? Of course, none of the churches are for beer and the local bars anyway, so what difference is it if Lee Bar offers a rum and coke versus a Budweiser? When some say Jesus drank wine, well, wine was a method of purifying the water. People were getting sick from drinking the water. The bible tells us very explicitly do not drink in abundance (any type of alcohol). I don’t care if you get drunk on beer or Vodka, don’t do it in abundance and I’ll add don’t drive.
Since we all know what Madison will be like if we all vote No, we really only need to explore the concept of what it will be like if we all vote Yes. This brings us to the economic impact. This is where Madison will be in uncharted waters and we all have questions.
First, how many liquor licenses will be granted? From what I have been told, it is either 1 per 5,000 residents or 1 per 10,000 residents. Since Madison has about 20,000 residents, this means a maximum of four licenses to sell alcohol will be granted. For those of you who think that if we become Wet, it means we will have whiskey filled saloons and drive through package stores on every corner, that is impossible.
Second, is there a difference in the type of license; retail sales versus drink on premises? Let’s assume there are only four licenses allowed with two being retail and two being drink on premises. Who should get these? Florida has a very expensive lottery system for these licenses. The few businesses that win a license must spend a lot of money with state filing fees, insurance, and other costs. This will not mean every corner quicky mart can start selling vodka. I have heard that a drink on premises license will only be offered to restaurants with seating capacity in excess of 150 and already have a beer license. There goes Pizza Hut and Rancho Grande. Who is left?
Third, I can only assume this is a vote to repeal an existing prohibition law. Does that prohibition law also ban the sale and consumption of alcohol on Sundays. If so, will alcohol sales be allowed on Sunday?
I have to wonder who / what establishment could possibly benefit from this. If Winn Dixie and Harvey’s each obtain a liquor license, then no new jobs will be created. If an existing restaurant obtains a license, then no new jobs are created. The only way jobs can be created is if a new establishment comes to town. Do we really think Applebees and Outback Steak House have been waiting for this moment? No, it has to be someone with more at stake, someone with a tourism base, . . . wait! I have it! Honey Lake Plantation has visitors from all over the country come dine in their expensive (by small town standards) establishment. How about those hunters that spend thousands of dollars flying to rural Florida to hunt in an elite club and then are handed a Natural Light. How about the the wealthy family that wants a Plantation style wedding on the grounds, only to serve up the finest Coronas. This is the clientele that demands better. This group brings money into Madison. Of course, no new jobs are created.
At the end of this debate, I’m still confused. Am I voting for religious stoicism? Am I voting for economic gains? Honestly, I don’t think there is significant impact to me or my neighbors either way. If it passes, I don’t think I will see a bit of difference except that government will have one less thing to restrict me from doing, if I should even choose. I will exert my American privilege and vote . . .
Madison is already a wet county (beer and wine coolers), the vote is semantics, it’s all alcohol, this is down to voting/arguing over prof (alcohol content).
Prohibition is long past and we are beyond any statics for this subject. Madison has already voted yes once to beer and wine, so I say finish what was started so many years ago.
Vote Yes….
Just as a side, I truly wish our county got this fired up about our school system, jobs, and things that really impact the county.
Freedom of Speech has returned to The Madison Voice!
Good for you. Let the voices of Madison speak.