You outsiders should go back where you came from! (Editorial)
8-27-12 Editorial by John Ovenden*
I was expressing my opinion about the wet/dry issue on facebook yesterday. (THIS IS NOT ABOUT ALCOHOL). Not everyone agrees with anyone’s opinion. While discussing this with numerous people, I received a private message from a guy named Albert Thigpen. I’m posting this because I think the mentality shown in his comment needs to be addressed in Madison. Plus the fact that we aren’t friends in life or on facebook, this was completely unprovoked or solicited.
Here is what his message said:
“Just my opinion, you outsiders that have slithered into our community and want to change it should go back to where you came from, unless you are unwelcome there. Just my opinion.”
I never responded to him.
Minutes later, I was flooded with messages from friends telling me this guy was talking about me in some “anti-outsiders” group on facebook. I checked it out. What I found was a group, by category, but what seemed more like his personal grandstand with his wife liking everything he says and one other follower that shares his idea of the perfect version of Madison. I realized very quickly that he probably hasn’t any influence in the Madison community; however, his line of thinking flourishes here.
As I read his postings, I recalled hearing this mentality from several people over the years. It’s as narrow minded as a person can be in my opinion. I mean, exactly how long does a person have to live in Madison to lose their “outsider status”? Why are these people afraid of people that weren’t born and raised here?
I’ll tell you what I think…It’s EGO. God forbid someone outside of Madison has more knowledge of the world and its workings! Sometimes people just “can’t see the forest for the trees”, but sometimes it’s like people have coffee weeds growing out of their chest and they can’t see at all.
Example: I came to Madison almost ten years ago. Having lived in a handful of large cities and having traveled around the country, I came here with a broad view of how people live in different places in America. After deciding to get involved in political action in Madison a few years ago, I quickly learned what Madison was yearning for: an unbiased news source that would inform people of all of the story, not just a friend’s side of a story. Many people complained about this problem but few attempted to do anything to change it. I spent about a month going over some ideas with some friends in Atlanta and Madison Florida Voice was born. I knew little about news and reporting but knew what I was seeing wasn’t working.
See, an “outsider” can have good ideas and just might be able to contribute to the Madison community from their experiences in life. To automatically discredit someone because they weren’t born and raised here reminds me of Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies. She couldn’t understand why someone wouldn’t want to bath in Lye soap and didn’t want any “city-slickers” telling her different. I grew up in Atlanta and managed to come here and fix a problem that had been going on for decades, according to almost everyone that I have met.
To the people that share these “anti-outsider” views:
Be a little more open minded. I understand being proud of your local heritage but, let’s face the fact that Madison is not growing, it’s going the opposite direction. There is almost nothing for graduates of high school or even college to do here. We have many people that want this to change but a lot fewer that are willing to do anything to help make that happen. Just because you have lived here for generations doesn’t mean YOU know what’s best for EVERYONE. Open your mind. Your mentality is very antiquated. You are part of the problem.
John Ovenden
Madisonvoice.com
I was born and raised in Madison County but moved away nearly 17 years ago. Most of the layout of the town pretty much looks the same except for the business names have changed. Know this from first hand experience that once you move away, you will never fully become the insider again. Perhaps it is because it is almost like you are married to a small town. There have been times it would have been nice to go back but for what. The only good thing would be being able to be around family. However, the economic opportunities of jobs are slim to none unless you are in the elite group of who you know. So I just sit as a spectator reading the news from Madison and praying that things will change for future generations. I can count on maybe two hands of the people I went to school with that still reside here. As they teach us in the corporate company I work for, you can’t keep doing the same things over and over expecting different results. Encourage you not to let the generations of those gone before you die out before deciding on positive economic change and development.
My family moved here in 1967, I was four years old at the time.
I married a local boy and put down roots and they keep me here, but that is ALL that keeps me here. I wish we had left long ago and still hope we can (maybe @ retirement). I will always be an outsider here. I don’t think like the average Madisonian and I think this is a stagnant, little pond.
I am happy that we’re now a WET county, but don’t think it will solve any root problems here. Lousy schools, lack of employment, racism, rabid nepotism and a pride in ignorance. I know how you feel, John. Thank you for The Voice.
Is she an equestrian, or does she just own a race horse? There’s a difference, you know.
Horse racing is known as the sport of kings…but the kings don’t actually ride the horses.
Thank You, John!
We appreciate your hard work and honesty!
“It is ironic that the United States should have been founded by intellectuals, for throughout most of our political history, the intellectual has been for the most part considered an outsider….”
~ Richard Hofstadter
Dadgum intelligent outsiders and their learnins…. LOL
CAM – What I meant is that gave the public what they wanted and deserved. They wanted the whole story, both sides of a story and African Americans in the news who weren’t under arrest. I have to give Michael Curtis, a reporter at the time for the other news, credit for breaking the ice on years of not allowing African Americans on the cover of the paper. Fixed might be a strong word. How about influenced and forced them to change their ways.
Peasant , how about “RED” in as commie , Pepper !”
John,
Please explain just what problem you have fixed by coming to Madison County. The words below are from your piece above.
“I grew up in Atlanta and managed to come here and fix a problem that had been going on for decades, according to almost everyone that I have met”.
I think it is a good thing that you have done what you have with your “VOICE” and given the people a different perspective of news reporting. Maybe, that is what you were referring to by your comments.
This whole ordeal concerning the vote has gotten out of hand. As stated previously, more than once, there will be no more “drunks” in Madison County than there are now if we go “WET”. Look at surrounding counties such as, Jefferson and Hamilton, they have been wet for years and they are more depressed than we are in Madison. Could it be that because they only sell liquor by the package and not mixed drinks? Is that the reason for their lack of growth? I think not.
Although I write from Hamilton County, my child works and goes to school in Madison County, so I believe I have a voice…We moved to Hamilton 6 years ago, and found that while people were generally friendly, we have not felt included in church activities or other activities involving “locals”. I taught in a local Christian school, and with the exception of the principal and one or two teachers, I was very much branded an outsider. While I’m not suggesting that you give up on your community (far from it), these panhandle counties have no chance at attracting enough business/manufacturing jobs to rejuvenate the area. If it wasn’t for the Pork Chop gang putting the prisons up here years ago, it would be even worse. The schools stink, law enforcement is a joke, and most people here don’t really care. I consider moving here the second worst mistake I made in my life., but I wish you the best in your endeavor
Margie, don’t you work for the college? If so then you should be able to understand that all comments are biased. That is the point of commenting. The REPORTING is what is unbiased.
Yes Margie, when you threaten to expose undercover officers, and in your case personal attacks on individuals undercover officers, I turn your post along with your IP address to the Sheriff. That’s how it works. Simply read the instructions on posting comments before commenting.
Unbiased website? Of course I am sure you will not allow this to be posted, because we both know that is not true. Once before when I submitted a comment about a public official, instead of posting the comment you took it to the person. Would you not consider that biased journalism or just brown nosing.
Would you not consider the comments posted by peasant as biased? Would that have been allowed it is was written about the dnc?
Still have enough backbone to sign my name to this one just like I did the comment that you tried to gain brownie points with.
Margie Phillips
I’m with Eddie. Time for a drink. There’s no problem a fifth of jack Daniels won’t solve. Lol
I’ve lived in Madison for 22 out of my 23 years of life, and boy is this post spot-on.
I can honestly say, though, living around people much like the man mentioned above for most of my life has only been a good steer in the RIGHT direction. It’s taught me how NOT to think, how I should NOT act, and certainly what I should NOT say to others….regardless of what I think of them.
Did no one watch Bambi?
“If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”
Some people should take that literally..
It’s time for a drink.
John, enjoy reading your contributions very much and sorry for Mr. Thigpen’s rudeness. We moved to Madison from S. Florida several years ago and guess that would qualify me as an “outsider” and that’s OK with me. Since we “slithered” into Madison, we have always supported the local busnesses, helped out in local civic affairs, pay our taxes, and continue to love Madison. Keep up the good work John.
Rosalyn Jenkins, Outsider
These are the best of times and the worst of times. Perception is reality! There are entiring truths in Fahrenheit 451 and Brave New Worth. Hunger Games has brought truth back to us.
@LN,
Please pay attention to the quote marks. When they are included it means I stole it. Well some of it came out of my numb skull, but none of that is relevant. Thanks for the backhanded complement.
PS: Peasant, if you wrote that, you should do stand-up. It is terrific. Lol!!
John, this is just small thinking. There are lots of good things about living in a small town. This is just the flip side. Small towns do not have to be populated by small minds, but all small towns have a few of those.
Keep doin’ what you’re doin’. 
On first and foremost being technically “born” in Valdosta ga as it was the closest hospital I have lived in madison county nearly my
Entire life …. I will say this to all of you who are of the belief “outsiders go away” all of us need to get the heck out of this country because unless you are a full blooded American Indian you are technically an “outsider” too!!!! Having said my peace I believe madison county would greatly benefit from the sale of alcohol it would invite numerous restuarant chains to the area after all our nearest metro area Valdosta can only grow so much…. Just some little things to think about there!!!!!
Well, I married a local girl and moved here in 1985. I guess I was a “outsider” but by marrying into the family that I did, it didn’t matter. They accepted me and that was all that was needed. –> Mike & Juan..
both of your posts were excellent and says it all. I do find it funny that every now and then people will ask me what year I graduated from MCHS ( actually Terry Parker in Jax, FL). What I want to say is “call me insider, call me outsider, but please always call me for dinner…… It truly does not matter where a man comes from, only where he is going!
@Kpine,
Be careful, you gonna show your age! Thespians have not been discussed for years in these parts.
Im from Madison but I live in Atlanta……Things in Madison just sometimes seem so 18th century and right wingish……..I wish the town as whole would just grow up…..It makes me embarrassed sometimes to say Im from Madison with the racist mentality that some of the Caucasian and African American people have there……Maybe one day Madison will be in the present century
Peasant , how about that battle many decades ago in the Florida Democrat party between George Smathers & Claude Pepper ?
OK. no one liked my talk with the squirrel. A regular contributor of comments just sent me an email from the convention in Tampa. He included a agenda for the next 3 days which i found interesting.
“2012 Republican Convention Schedule!
8:30 am – Opening Music: “Trample the Weak” by Ted Nugent, sung by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir
9am – Tax planning seminar on how you too can pay less than 15% taxes on your millions/billions. Hosted by Bain Capital accountants.
9:30am – Discussion of Christian values and marital fidelity – Newt Gingrich presiding
10am – “Sucking up to Israel” or, “How to Subjugate National Security to a Foreign Power” – a tutorial by Sheldon Adelson.
10:30am – “Women’s Rights: What’s the Big Fuss Little Lady?” – dominated by Erik Cantor
11am — “Why I’m Holier than Thou” — ministered by Rick Santorum
11:30 – The Curse of Irrelevancy – sobbed by John Boehner
12pm – My Gun’s Bigger than Your’s –or “Is that a Politician in your Pocket or are you just Glad to See Me?” –telemarketed in by the NRA
Break for Lunch — provided by Chic-Fil-A
12:30pm –“ How to Buy an Election: Making the Citizen’s United Decision Work for You!” – time paid for by Karl Rove and Antonin Scalia
1pm – “Keeping your Cadillacs Primed” followed by “Reaching out to the Proletariat with Dressage” – driven by Anne Romney
1:30pm – “Maintaining Conservative Values while Screwing the Elderly” – convened by Paul Ryan
2pm – “Exploit your Entire Family for Maximum Profits” or “Mama Grizzlies for Dummies” – hosted by Sarah Palin
2:30pm – Fair and Impartial News Reporting: Why it’s Over-rated and What you can do to Eradicate it – aired by Fox News
3pm – Bombastics 101 – orated by Chris Christie
3:30pm — “A Muslim Ate my Love Child” – confessed by Michelle Bachmann
4pm — “Why IQ is Over-Rated” — drooled by Herman Caine
4:15 – Open forum on Gay Rights (note: Event cancelled due to lack of attendance)
4:30pm – –I’m Dreaming of a White Christmas” or “The KKK for a New Generation” — delivered by Gov. Rick Perry
5pm — Overcoming Depression by Selling Your Soul – whined by John McCain
5:30 pm – What’s a Soul? — questioned by Dick Cheney
6pm – “Understanding why Democrats exist in higher Numbers than Republicans…their women are all Sluts” – ranted by Rush Limbaugh
6:30pm – Acceptance Speech “with Special Thanks to the job creators at the top 1% …Never have so few given so little to so many so reluctantly” or “What Would Jesus Do?” – Mitt Romney (sung to the tune of America the Beautiful)
7pm – dinner: Please indicate your choice of foie gras with non-Kobe beef or Texas BBQ served in troughs recycled from Super Pac money storage”
A squirrel came up to me last week while I was trimming some limbs over my shack. He asked if we humans really need such things as religion, industrial agriculture/farms, Water management districts, centralized state governments, rules and regulations that prevent personal freedom and stuff like that. I replied, “I doubt it.”, to which it replied, “You must be embarrassed to be human cause I understand most of the folks who resent outsiders taking a position on issues in your county are going to vote for Governor Robme who is a known plutocrat, with a wife who is a known equestrian.
Our national elections must be scaring the hell out of the rest of the world, including our fellow creatures.
They are surely scaring the h.ll out of me.
John, John, John- This sure does get old, right??
Last time we heard about your birth certificate, YOU WERE BORN IN MADISON…many of us are born and raised here and then have to leave to continue our lives…YOU went away for a short while and then RETURNED to try and be a contributor for a BETTER MADISON!!! SHEESH
John,
I was born and raised in the big city of Jacksonville but my family and I moved here to Madison County nearly 30 years ago and we have dealt with our share of being called outsiders. I think that you do an outstanding job with the voice and you are helping to make a difference in this community we call home.
People are afraid of change but, Madison County needs it in order to grow
Did you see one of the reunion picks on his page where he pouring some crown royal to drink? must not be to anti wet haha……..
Hi John, I would like to say that I too was not born and raised here, and I would like to think that in my 31 years working with Madison EMS I have made a positive difference in Madison County. I consider Madison County my home, and although at first I was made to feel like an outsider by a few, I feel welcome here. Three of my four children have had to move away because of the lack of opportunities. Two are career military and another lives in Valdosta. In my opinion, the biggest problem we have is the lack of good jobs, but we need to focus on our education system in order to have a workforce that will attract jobs. I don’t consider Madison a “dry” county.Most of the intoxicated people I have ever picked up in the ambulance were drunk on beer, which they legally purchased locally. And in my five years working EMS in Miami, as well as the over 30 in Madison, a very small percentage of calls were alcohol related, and frankly, I have not seen the carnage that other people are talking about. I do not drink hard liquor, so to me it makes no difference if it passes or not, but I will defend the right to let people vote on this, since I was born in a country that had no freedoms (Cuba). My grandfather and parents gave up everything they had, and risked their lives so that me and my sister could live in the greatest free country in the world. Wether you are for or against, we don’t need this to divide our county. We need to work together to make this a better place for everyone. And yes I am a catholic, and proud of it, and was told by a preacher that I would go to hell if I joined the catholic church, so the next week I became a member of the catholic church. Jesus died on the cross for all of us, whether we are catholic, baptist, presbiyterian or any other religion. I do not agree with those that use religion to judge others. The only person whose judgement I care about is my Savior Jesus Christ.
Those outsider comments can kick rock. I went to MCHS and I also have a lot of family in Madison, so I tell you now, from us kids, who grew up Madison and left because of how it was and want to see change so we can be proud to call it our home, I hope this vote passes.
And for Thigpen and whoever else wants to make comments, um, you don’t speak for the majority, so quit trying to front like your a pimp!
You ain’t leading but 2 things pal, Jack and Schitt, and Jack left town.
I have been reading the comments, the pro and cons of wet vs dry. I will say this I am a 5th generation born Madison Countian and I have watch as this county has lost businesses. When our young people graduate what is there for them to do? There are no jobs and nothing for entertainment. We used to have a walk-in theater and a drive-in and now that is history. So our young people move away and make their lives else where. I moved back here more than 20 years ago and raised my children here and they have gone because they could not make a living here. Also I will say this I have a drink now and then and if you are in control and not the drink there will not be any problems. You can not blame the drink for what people choose to do. People will find a way to do what they want to, You can not legislate how people will behave.
John,
Buck up, you are doing a great job! Here’s a song that should help you through most of these narrow-minded situations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4N0_W63JC4
John, first I wish to thank you for your efforts in bringing this news to all the people of Madison County.
I am a native born resident of Madison County and do not agree with all that Mr. Thigpen has said. Please correct me if I am wrong but, was it not an “Outsider” that began the process for this election? I believe that is a bit of contention around the county. Would not a person believe that if the people of Madison County wanted it to be “WET” then, they would have done this many times before? People have a right to live where they choose but, should also remember this county was “DRY” when they arrived. It was no secret. I personally think that crime would not go up nor do I believe there would be more DWI arrests. People seem to forget, as I mentioned in an earlier comment, that 1 beer has the same alcohol content as 1 oz of 80 proof whiskey. Having been in Law-enforcement for a long time the majority of DWI arrests I made were beer drinkers. Personally, I hope the vote passes. Welcome to all you “OUTSIDERS” for lack of a better word. I’m sure your contributions to Madison County will be helpful. I will add that when I was in school, we had 2 movie theaters and a drive-in. We have had neither for many years now and yet, our population is greater that it was back in the 60′s/70′s. What that says is that an older generation of people are moving here after living their lives in cramped sub-divisions and now want to enjoy our openness.
Thanks, John for doing what you do.
I’ve heard a lot of arguments lately and I’m happy about that. At least we’re talking and thinking about things. That’s the ONLY way we can grow.
I’ve heard friends in the law enforcement community talk about all the horrible alcohol related situations they’ve been in. I’ve heard some of them inflate the stories (probably not intentionally) to make it more sensational.
Well, I too have been in public service for over 20 years. For every horror story you hear, I want you to just think for a moment about about how many people use alcohol or drugs daily and DO NOT end up an awful statistic. Every day people use substances WITHOUT abusing them, without crashing, cutting, stabbing, raping farm animals or any other atrocity. That’s because MOST people know how to be responsible and MOST people do not need a nanny to hold their hand when they choose to do what they want to do.
To spread this type of fear is to IGNORE other causes that contribute to why people abuse drugs and alcohol. Confusing correlation and causation is a logical fallacy and is not a legitimate argument. It is mistaking cause and effect.
There are literally hundreds of other causes that contribute to alcohol and drug abuse. Blaming the substance itself is foolish and limits creative problem solving. If we could pull together as a community to arrive at solutions together, we would all be better off.
Something else we would do well to remember. The government isn’t “them”, it is us. It is your neighbor, the people we work with, the people we go to church with. Remember the self absorbed asses that ran for office in high school? The same people run for office today, that’s the government!
And if my neighbor should ask me to consider changing my mind about what I choose to put in my own body, then he is my ideological opponent. That’s great, we can discuss, debate, and attempt to win one another over. But whenever that person steps outside their home and into a voting booth and decides to vote away my natural right to govern what I choose to do in the privacy of my own home, without harming anyone else…. that person has become my enemy!
Mike
John I am not from Madison either . I am from a small town in Ala. lived in south fla for years then moved to Madison to get back to the country way of life. There are some closed minded people here that does not like outsiders but I don’t like some people coming in wanting to make things like it was where they came from. Madison like all small towns in America need some change to survive .
Yes I am not from round here. My wife and I have had this very friendly cold attitude here since we moved here 5 years ago. We attempted to buy a car here in madison and with my RI accent I asked what they had for sale and was told we don’t sell cars here we been meaning to remove that sign. We were in a local restaurant and was told by the owner at least I am not Catholic. This feeling towards us has been on going for years. Even some of the close neighbors riding around our home pulling donuts and trying to make us leave our property.
Some of these locals can really get violent and aggressive. Wow what is up with these locals.
What they don’t know is that we were born in RI but my wifes family owned 5,000 acres in Greenville and grew tobacco in the early 1800′s now who’s not from ROUND HERE.
We just want to live in pease so please leave us alone in pease
John , you saw that when the 10 Commandments issue was before the county commission : many of the pro speakers immediately stated how long their families have lived in Madison . I assume they felt this made their speeches more important .
I thought the “outsider” attitude was funny and quirky at first, and then I realized how serious some of the “home growns” really were. Not all of them!! Most people have been welcoming of us personally.
Madison will not grow if it does not attract young families, and there is nothing here for them right now except a peaceful and safe community. The schools are poor, the only recreation is either football or baseball or dance (soccer? music lessons? museum?). The lack of jobs and shops is not attractive to young families. Let’s face it: old people die. If you don’t have young people in your community, your community dies too. What is keeping our PRODUCTIVE young people in Madison? Family heritage (if there is a family run business/farm), welfare for those who chose the easy path, and that’s all. Most of our productive, bright, promotion-minded kids are leaving and not coming back. They take their potential, and their tax dollars, with them. Madison is left with a few family run business struggling valiantly to support the city and county infastructure, which require more and more of them every year as the welfare population expands exponentially. These business will eventually cave under the pressure of supporting the welfare masses. Poverty breeds poverty, and wealth flees.
There are plenty of other safe and peaceful communities available for young families – communities that not only offer family-friendly neighborhoods, but economic growth, educational opportunities, and extra-curricular, recreational facilities for the whole family. Why would a young family chose Madison over one of those places, especially if they aren’t “from” Madison, and are unwelcomed in the governing of their newly-adopted home town? They won’t.
We will be watching for that John. We can boycott too.
Hi John,
As someone who still calls Madison County my ‘homeplace’ but lives 300 miles away, I appreciate that you have an online newspaper presence.
Not only are you being unbiased in the news reporting, but also allowing free access to the website. Of course, this free access is compliments of the paid advertisers. One cannot say that for the other local print and online news media outlet.
Keep up the GREAT work!
Leo
John, I was born and raised in Madison and I have always been considered an outsider, even when I was living there. They knew some of those OUTSIDERS influenced my thinking. One of these centuries my hometown MIGHT change. Carry on John. I enjoy reading Madison Florida Voice.
It will be interesting to see who pulls their ad off of Madison Voice after this.
I have been dealing with this since my parents moved me here as a teenager in 1988. In fact, just a couple of weeks ago, I was reminded that I am not from here, therefore I do not know anything about the county’s history.
We too were not born an raised in Madison, we have been here for years- we have been here long enough to call Madison Co. home. I feel that YOU John have been here long enough to call Madison Co. home-We sure are glad that you had the nerve to have MadisonVoice we enjoy it very much. Thank you for sharing it with so many people, keep up the good works,Buddy!
Sometimes we have to step back to see the big picture. To make a difference means being involved as a catalyst, a mentor, a participant. And sometimes we overlook the obvious – because it isn’t what we want to see.
Later this year I will – with the help of anyone who wants to volunteer to help – provide an open forum for those who want change. Contact me at P O Box 12, Madison, Florida 32341.
Be careful what you ask for….
Jim Catron, City Commissioner, District 3 (only been here since 1966)
That guy dosent even know you! As far as Im concerned, your a part of Madison just as much as everyone one else! Im glad you moved here. Your an awesome person!!